DADE CITY, Fla. — On Wednesday, we heard from all kinds of experts, ranging from experts in crime scene reconstruction to police training and the use of force. All of these witnesses were called by the defense.
Throughout the day, the prosecution objected to certain aspects of testimony, and at one point, attempted to exclude an entire testimony from Dr. Michael Knox, a crime scene reconstructionist. Judge Susan Barthle allowed the jurors to hear his testimony with some limitations.
Below, you’ll find detailed updates from each testimony. It is still unclear if Curtis Reeves will testify in his own trial. He faces charges of second-degree murder and aggravated battery and could face a minimum of 25 years in prison if convicted of second-degree murder with a firearm.
5 p.m. update:
Dr. Roy Bedard, an expert in police officer training and the use of force, took the stand to talk about his expertise and how it relates to this case.
He highlights doing a “threat assessment,” which police officers are trained to do when approaching situations. He describes a lot of aspects that go into a threat assessment, like the environment you’re in. Bedard says his training involves accurately identifying a threat and appropriately responding.
“Everything has a baseline,” Bedard explains. He uses the example of someone screaming in a church, or everyone being quiet in a bar. Both of these situations, he explains, would catch your attention, therefore starting your threat assessment.
Bedard was asked by the defense if he had an opinion on if Reeves discharged his firearm in response to popcorn being thrown. Bedard says yes, he does have an opinion.
“That’s not why he discharged his firearm,” he answers.
4 p.m. update:
After lunch, we heard more from Knox and his reconstruction of the scene. Judge Susan Barthle had already limited aspects of reconstruction that could be discussed, so questioning focused on the backlighting in the movie theater.
During questioning from the prosecution, they wanted to clarify with Knox that his reconstruction of the crime scene was not exactly what happened in the shooting. Knox agreed with this.
After Knox was released, both counsels had some legal matters to clear up with Barthle. One of those issues includes how the jury should perceive Curtis Reeves. Since he’s a retired police officer, the defense wants to show his level of training. The prosecution argues that because he was retired at the time of the shooting, he should be held at the same level as civilians.
The defense’s expert witness, Dr. Roy Bedard, will testify about the training officers receive, especially in the use of force. The prosecution argues that Bedard wouldn’t have the proper knowledge of the Tampa Police Department’s training because there wasn’t a standard curriculum used when Reeves would have received his training.
Barthle will allow Bedard’s testimony to be heard by jurors.
1 p.m. update:
After some back and forth between the defense and prosecution about whether to exclude testimony from Dr. Michael Knox, Judge Barthle says she will allow his testimony to be heard by the jurors.
Knox is the chief forensic consultant for Knox & Associates. He’s a board-certified crime scene reconstructionist.
During questioning of the defense, Knox answered questions about how crime scenes should be investigated. He says interviews are one of the most important parts of the investigation to help put together what happened. Knox adds that it is crucial to separate witnesses to prevent witness contamination. He says keeping them together can cause witnesses to say things they heard from other witnesses.
When it comes to video evidence, Knox explains that it’s important law enforcement obtains video without any contamination in the process. He agrees with the defense that outside parties shouldn’t be allowed to take care of the video for law enforcement.
In Curtis Reeves’ case, Cobb Theatres had the video sent to their headquarters in Alabama where law enforcement had to go to pick it up.
11 a.m. update:
Most of the morning was spent listening to a pre-recorded testimony from Dr. Michael Foley, a diagnostic and forensic radiologist.
He was given X-rays of Curtis Reeves’ hands, wrists, and other parts of his body for analysis. Foley says as you age, you experience degenerative change, where the cartilage between bones gets worn down.
Foley says Reeves is experiencing degenerative change, especially in his back.
After Foley’s testimony, the defense planned to bring in Dr. Michael Knox, an expert in recreating crime scenes.
The prosecution brought up issues with Knox’s recreation to the judge before Knox was brought in, saying his recreation and use of mannequins to represent Chad and Nicole Oulson is not accurate enough.
The defense responded by saying Knox’s testimony is for “demonstrative purposes.” They say it is an aid to help the jury understand backlighting at the time of the shooting. Defense attorney Richard Escobar adds the prosecution’s issues are ironic because the investigation was, “an absolute trainwreck, totally incompetent by the Pasco County Sheriff’s Office.”
“I don’t think a jury needs an expert to talk about backlighting,” the prosecution responded. “We don’t have a jury full of kindergarteners who don’t know what backlighting is.”
The defense says they can’t assume what the jury does or does not know.
In trying to make a decision on whether or not to exclude Knox’s upcoming testimony, Judge Susan Barthle said, “Clearly, I need to get this right.” She excused herself for 10 minutes to find additional guidance on the situation.
When Barthle asked if the recreation is accurate, because case law says it has to be, the defense said, “It’s flexible, reasonably accurate.” Barthle says there’s a difference between “accurate” and “reasonably accurate.”
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As we enter the eighth day of testimony for the Curtis Reeves trial, the defense will call more expert witnesses who have analyzed the case.
Tuesday brought both expert witnesses and witnesses who were inside the movie theater at the time of the shooting.
We heard from a forensic pathologist, a woman who was looking to buy movie posters from the theater, and even from the general manager of the theater at the time of the shooting, Thomas Peck.
We also heard from Joanna Turner, the ex-wife of Mark Turner, a witness who testified several days ago. They both were in the theater at the time of the shooting. Joanna says she saw a quick motion from Chad Oulson, where she describes him holding something like a cup or thermos and throwing it.
However, she says she wasn’t concerned at the time about the altercation between Oulson and Curtis Reeves, even saying she thought they were friends.